00:00-00:01 You're over here in the left channel. 00:01-00:03 The Gardner in the left channel. 00:03-00:04 Now it's on the right. 00:04-00:06 The left channel is like the little snobby there 00:06-00:08 with his equipment. 00:08-00:11 I mean, after hearing that love fest for Apple this morning, 00:11-00:13 I just want to dump barf. 00:13-00:16 Of course we know Apple invented the graphical user 00:16-00:16 interface. 00:16-00:18 You restrain that. 00:18-00:19 You restrain. 00:19-00:20 I don't think so. 00:20-00:23 Apple developed it by stealing it. 00:23-00:24 That's how that happened. 00:24-00:26 Well, all the good things get stolen. 00:26-00:29 See, Apple people got something to say about everything. 00:29-00:31 That's the thing. 00:31-00:33 They are some answer puppies. 00:33-00:35 I thought the whole Apple discussion 00:35-00:37 was pretty subdued for us. 00:37-00:39 Oh, of course you did. 00:39-00:43 It was nauseating. 00:43-00:47 I got a Macintosh in my carrier right now. 00:47-00:49 They're very elegant, wonderful machines, 00:49-00:53 but they're not like world peace. 00:53-00:56 Oh, Apple pays attention to the user. 00:56-00:58 Oh, yeah, nobody else does that. 00:58-01:00 Oh, and you go to the Apple store, you get a great experience. 01:00-01:03 Sure, because they got to sell you overpriced hardware. 01:03-01:06 Oh, well, it's like, eh, can I have your Macintosh? 01:06-01:09 It's the holy war thing. 01:09-01:11 Anyway, that's not what I'm here to talk about. 01:11-01:11 I'm here to talk. 01:11-01:14 I was going to say, because we're filling up. 01:14-01:17 This is the preamble that we need 01:17-01:19 to get out of our systems, right? 01:19-01:19 That's true. 01:19-01:20 That's true. 01:20-01:21 A little purgation. 01:21-01:22 Right. 01:22-01:25 No, I wanted to talk about the new media seminar. 01:25-01:28 So we can do that whenever you're ready. 01:28-01:28 We're ready. 01:28-01:32 Let's give our folks out there, like mom and your wife 01:32-01:35 who we were listening to, right? 01:35-01:37 Yeah. 01:37-01:39 Where are we? 01:39-01:43 We are actually more or less reclining, I would say, 01:43-01:45 though working very hard mentally. 01:45-01:46 Yeah. 01:46-01:53 On the top of a five-story hotel in Barcelona, Spain, 01:53-01:57 yeah, or Catalonia, I guess. 01:57-01:58 Catalonia. 01:58-02:00 You're rolling your arms. 02:00-02:02 Yeah, if people are really still feeling bad 02:02-02:06 about the whole Castilian thing, which I wouldn't blame them. 02:06-02:07 I got over it. 02:07-02:07 You what? 02:07-02:08 I got over it. 02:08-02:10 You got over it. 02:10-02:13 So yeah. 02:13-02:16 And we're actually kind of in day one and a half 02:16-02:19 of the Open EdTech 2010. 02:19-02:22 I never know what to call it, conference meeting event. 02:22-02:23 It's like neither. 02:23-02:26 And it's like a half an hour. 02:26-02:29 And you've been traveling quite a lot. 02:29-02:32 Professor Levine, where have you been? 02:32-02:36 I decided to come to Spain by way of Brisbane, Australia, 02:36-02:38 and Wellington, New Zealand. 02:38-02:40 I'm sure it's because you use Apple products that you've 02:40-02:42 had such a big influence. 02:42-02:44 You're just not going to let go of that. 02:44-02:46 Let go of what? 02:46-02:51 And yeah, I came here by way of Columbia, South Carolina, 02:51-02:53 where the barbecue was astonishing. 02:53-02:55 I had barbecue at the Palmetto Pig, 02:55-02:56 but that's another story. 02:56-02:58 I'd like to hear that story, but offline. 02:58-03:00 Offline. 03:00-03:02 So I guess the topic this week-- 03:02-03:04 this is the first time in a couple of weeks we've talked. 03:04-03:09 And as it turns out, both weeks have been 03:09-03:13 concerned with Doug Engelbart, the work he did at the Stanford 03:13-03:17 Research Institute, and then, of course, before that, 03:17-03:21 before he got that gig, and afterwards, on his own. 03:21-03:24 And then as part of what was first called the Bootstrap 03:24-03:28 Institute, and how I guess is the Doug Engelbart Institute, 03:28-03:29 led by-- 03:29-03:30 no, I don't guess. 03:30-03:31 I know-- Doug Engelbart Institute, 03:31-03:35 led by his daughter, Christina Engelbart. 03:35-03:36 So-- 03:36-03:39 And you had her make a list of parents, right? 03:39-03:40 Well, that was very exciting. 03:40-03:44 And I had to say I was also very nervous about it. 03:44-03:45 For a couple of reasons. 03:45-03:51 One was just wondering, would Skype hold out that day? 03:51-03:55 Skype is a difficult technology in terms 03:55-03:57 of a university setting when things are controlled pretty 03:57-04:00 tightly in terms of bandwidth. 04:00-04:02 Sometimes you get Skype more consistently at home 04:02-04:05 than you can in a college or university setting. 04:05-04:07 But it worked well. 04:07-04:10 There were a couple of times when her face was a bit 04:10-04:14 cubist, let's say, since we're kind of in Picasso territory 04:14-04:15 here in Barcelona. 04:15-04:18 But by and large, the technical part worked out well. 04:18-04:26 I was also nervous because Christina, the work she's 04:26-04:29 doing, the work her dad did, they all 04:29-04:32 matter to me a huge amount. 04:32-04:35 And when something is that important to you, 04:35-04:38 it's hard to stay detached and kind of be a facilitator 04:38-04:44 and just kind of maintain an even strain. 04:44-04:48 I knew this was going to be kind of an emotional experience 04:48-04:49 for me. 04:49-04:50 And it was. 04:50-04:54 It's kind of like an Apple thing, almost. 04:54-04:58 Yeah, except it has to do with people and ideas instead of-- 04:58-05:00 I'll let it go. 05:00-05:00 You started it. 05:00-05:02 You brought it back up. 05:02-05:03 I couldn't resist it. 05:03-05:05 Yeah, it was real hard to get me to rise to a challenge 05:05-05:06 like that. 05:06-05:07 So really hard. 05:07-05:08 Pull my chain. 05:08-05:10 It pulls very easily. 05:10-05:14 But so I was nervous about how all that would go. 05:14-05:19 I know that Engelbart's essay, Augmenting Human Intellect, 05:19-05:23 can seem difficult or even be difficult for people. 05:23-05:27 I also know that it's got just this amazing vision in it. 05:27-05:30 And I just wanted everything to be right. 05:30-05:33 So Christina did beautifully. 05:33-05:39 She was able to speak in a very concise and yet full way 05:39-05:42 about her father's work, about what it meant going forward. 05:42-05:45 She talked a lot at my invitation 05:45-05:48 about what it was like growing up in that household 05:48-05:54 and how her father had been very devoted to his work. 05:54-05:57 So there were times they didn't see a lot of him. 05:57-06:01 But whenever he was home, he was a family man. 06:01-06:04 And he was very involved in their upbringing. 06:04-06:05 But we started the session at Baylor 06:05-06:10 by looking at the clip at the end of The Mother of All Demo's, 06:10-06:14 where he thanks his team and he dedicates the demo 06:14-06:15 to his family. 06:15-06:18 And of course, Christina, with her sisters, 06:18-06:19 was sitting right there in the front row 06:19-06:22 with her mother, Ballard Engelbart. 06:22-06:27 And Doug had kind of a catch in his voice 06:27-06:28 when he talked about his team. 06:28-06:31 And then even more so, when he talked about his family. 06:31-06:35 And it's easy what you get a sense of who he is 06:35-06:38 to watch that clip and to see how emotional and experienced 06:38-06:39 this was for him. 06:39-06:44 So Christina brought that out and talked a lot about just 06:44-06:48 the way in which he had very patiently and pretty much 06:48-06:53 in isolation worked on these ideas for 10 or 11 years 06:53-06:55 before the essay came out augmenting 06:55-06:58 human intellect to conceptual framework. 06:58-07:03 And then, of course, there were some moments from '62 to '63 07:03-07:07 or '74 when it wasn't clear that Engelbart would get to work 07:07-07:10 on the project he imagined. 07:10-07:14 And then in about four years, he and his team 07:14-07:16 pulled together what would then become The Mother of All 07:16-07:17 Demo's. 07:17-07:20 And as Christina was careful to point out, 07:20-07:23 worked even far beyond that impressive moment 07:23-07:28 in terms of the development of this collaborative enterprise 07:28-07:31 and this collaborative environment. 07:31-07:35 And the idea that what we were building was our capabilities. 07:35-07:37 And she was very careful to point out 07:37-07:41 that even though The Mother of All Demo's gets a lot of press 07:41-07:45 and is rightly seen as a defining moment in terms 07:45-07:49 of interactive computing, that it really 07:49-07:53 was the event that crystallized everything 07:53-07:57 that had come before and that many, many developments 07:57-08:00 followed it as well that don't get the same kind 08:00-08:01 of attention. 08:01-08:08 So it was a very comprehensive 45, 50 minute time 08:08-08:09 we had with her. 08:09-08:11 She was in her home. 08:11-08:14 We were in the Academy for Teaching and Learning Space. 08:14-08:15 Very simple kinds of equipment. 08:15-08:17 We didn't feel high tech at all. 08:17-08:23 We were using a Logitech webcam and a 52 inch flat panel LCD 08:23-08:27 monitor, a little Apple Mac mini to kind of drive it all. 08:27-08:33 And several of the seminar folks had really good and interesting 08:33-08:34 questions to ask. 08:34-08:39 And several remarked afterwards that they had really 08:39-08:43 come to understand Doug's vision better 08:43-08:46 after having Christina talk about it 08:46-08:48 and kind of talk us through it, which 08:48-08:51 leads to another thing that we'll discuss in a moment. 08:51-08:54 Now it was a very moving experience for me. 08:54-08:55 And I was pretty wound up afterwards. 08:55-08:58 It took me several hours to kind of get the adrenaline levels 08:58-08:59 down. 08:59-09:00 But I finally did. 09:00-09:06 And I think it was a really rewarding and special experience 09:06-09:09 for everybody in the seminar. 09:09-09:11 So I was very, very pleased by that. 09:11-09:13 Yeah, what a powerful experience. 09:13-09:18 Because given that Doug is not as much 09:18-09:20 able to speak about his experience anymore, 09:20-09:23 to be able to talk to Christina about it 09:23-09:24 is something that not a lot of people 09:24-09:26 can have the opportunity to do either. 09:26-09:31 No, and I hope that we'll be able to do more of these kinds 09:31-09:35 of things as the seminar continues both this semester 09:35-09:38 and in future iterations. 09:38-09:40 Some of these pioneers are either no longer with us, 09:40-09:44 or they're, as you say, not really 09:44-09:47 speaking in a public sense anymore. 09:47-09:50 Some of them are still with us very much so. 09:50-09:53 So there's still a chance to talk to Sherry Turkle, 09:53-09:55 or Brenda Laurel, or Alan Kay, or Ted Nelson. 09:55-09:58 And in this particular seminar format, 09:58-10:01 I think that the discussion can be unusually rich because 10:01-10:07 of the way it's situated in this chronology. 10:07-10:09 But even beyond the chronology, I've 10:09-10:14 titled the mother blog for the Baylor Seminar, 10:14-10:16 Listening for the Resonance Frequencies. 10:16-10:19 And that's because of a quote I found in a book called 10:19-10:23 The Dream Machine by someone who was working at the Xerox Park, 10:23-10:25 who said that they would talk about lots of things 10:25-10:25 in their meetings. 10:25-10:29 But whenever they got onto a certain line of thinking, 10:29-10:33 Vannevar Bush, Doug Engelbart, Ted Nelson, Alan Kay, 10:33-10:36 they would hit this resonance frequency. 10:36-10:38 Everyone's eyes would light up, and things 10:38-10:44 would take on more depth and texture in terms of the ideas. 10:44-10:45 And I really do think that there's 10:45-10:48 something special about these readings, particularly 10:48-10:50 these early readings, that has to do 10:50-10:52 with that resonance frequency. 10:52-10:55 A lot of people were really working along the same lines 10:55-10:58 and thinking in very sympathetic ways 10:58-11:02 about the possibilities of interactive computing, 11:02-11:07 ideas that we still have not really explored to their fullest, 11:07-11:11 or in some cases have hardly explored at all. 11:11-11:13 And you were telling me earlier, 11:13-11:18 there's been people, obviously-- I know I struggled reading it 11:18-11:20 even on my second time, and there's 11:20-11:23 been some pushback in some of the different forums. 11:23-11:24 And that's OK. 11:24-11:27 We want this to go-- we don't want it all to be glowing 11:27-11:27 accolades. 11:27-11:30 We want people to really react to these readings. 11:30-11:32 Yeah, no, that's right. 11:32-11:36 I guess what surprised me-- I hadn't really seen this before-- 11:36-11:42 was the extent to which people felt kind of angry or put off 11:42-11:48 by augmenting human intellect, a conceptual framework. 11:48-11:52 It is a dense essay in some respects. 11:52-11:53 I know that's true. 11:53-11:56 Christina said something very interesting along those lines. 11:56-11:59 She said that because Doug was working pretty much 11:59-12:02 in isolation, not by choice. 12:02-12:05 I mean, he was told, don't talk to people about this. 12:05-12:07 They'll think you're nuts. 12:07-12:09 And many people did think he was nuts 12:09-12:11 as he was working on these projects. 12:11-12:17 In fact, even after he got his grant from ARPA, 12:17-12:21 according to one memoir of Doug's, 12:21-12:22 the grant was kind of taken away from him 12:22-12:24 because they thought, well, this is great. 12:24-12:27 Now we need to get somebody who could really 12:27-12:31 do this in a practical way to carry this forward. 12:31-12:35 And that must have been excruciating 12:35-12:37 to be able to get some recognition 12:37-12:41 and then have your own group kind of take it away from you. 12:41-12:43 So he really had worked in isolation. 12:43-12:48 And she said, in many ways, we are all Doug's first readers 12:48-12:51 of augmenting human intellect, a conceptual framework. 12:51-12:56 This is really very much one person's vision that 12:56-13:01 had not benefited from being in a kind of conversation 13:01-13:03 with other people. 13:03-13:06 It's ironic, of course, that Doug was vitally interested 13:06-13:10 in providing more effective ways of collaborating 13:10-13:15 and working creatively as a team with his conceptual framework 13:15-13:17 and the framework itself. 13:17-13:19 While it didn't come out of a vacuum, certainly Doug 13:19-13:22 was very influenced by Vannevar Bush, 13:22-13:25 was very influenced by JCR Licklider's man computer 13:25-13:28 symbiosis article, as a lot of people were. 13:28-13:30 Still, there's something about this vision of collaboration 13:30-13:34 that is-- it bears the mark of a kind of loneliness, I think, 13:34-13:39 not because of its content, but because the way it's written, 13:39-13:41 he really is trying to explain something 13:41-13:45 that he's been warned not to talk about too much. 13:45-13:48 So you can sense a little bit of that in the essay. 13:48-13:51 But getting angry about it kind of surprised me. 13:51-13:55 Maybe anger is too strong a word, but one person in a blog 13:55-13:57 said, I really couldn't do this. 13:57-13:59 It was very difficult. 13:59-14:02 It reminded me of my worst days at graduate school. 14:02-14:06 This is exactly what's wrong if somebody who had been more 14:06-14:10 intent on making his ideas easily understood 14:10-14:11 had written this. 14:11-14:14 The vision would have come true a lot sooner, and so forth. 14:14-14:18 And as you say, it's good to get a variety of responses. 14:18-14:23 Of course, I disagree with those things entirely. 14:23-14:26 And I have to say that maybe I've been hanging out 14:26-14:32 with English majors too long, but I don't find the essay 14:32-14:33 terminally difficult. 14:33-14:34 There are moments where I really 14:34-14:36 do have to read it several times. 14:36-14:38 Not because I can't figure it out, 14:38-14:40 but because there's so much there. 14:40-14:41 And there are a couple of moments-- 14:41-14:45 there's one where I believe he actually 14:45-14:49 anticipates the wiki, where he talks about preserving 14:49-14:52 not only the associative trails, but the various states 14:52-14:55 of the development of the associative trails 14:55-14:57 as part of the context. 14:57-14:59 And so I look at that, and I think, wow, that's 14:59-15:02 just like the way a wiki holds all the earlier versions 15:02-15:03 in a database. 15:03-15:07 And I think about John Yiddell's heavy metal umlaut band 15:07-15:08 screencast and the way you actually 15:08-15:12 see knowledge being constructed over time 15:12-15:14 by looking at those snapshots of the various states 15:14-15:16 of the article. 15:16-15:18 And that happens in the Engelbart essay 15:18-15:19 in about two sentences. 15:19-15:23 It's almost as if he's thinking aloud to himself, 15:23-15:25 and this idea comes up, and then he goes on to something else. 15:25-15:31 So I think read that way as equal parts analysis 15:31-15:38 and kind of musing aloud with a very creative storytelling 15:38-15:40 kind of strategy at times. 15:40-15:46 I think it's actually quite a lovely and even playful essay 15:46-15:46 at times. 15:46-15:50 Yeah, the part where he brings in the voice of Joe, to me, 15:50-15:53 was just a rather novel way rather than just 15:53-15:56 dryly describing the features of the system 15:56-16:01 to have this voice of a gentle mentor kind of walk you 16:01-16:02 through this. 16:02-16:02 Well, exactly. 16:02-16:05 And he's very aware that he's doing that. 16:05-16:08 He actually says early on, there's 16:08-16:10 going to be a lot of technical detail in section two. 16:10-16:13 If that's really too much for you, 16:13-16:14 skip to section three, where I try 16:14-16:17 to do some things that are unusual for a paper like this 16:17-16:19 by telling stories. 16:19-16:20 There's some very funny parts. 16:20-16:24 At one point, he says, this Joe sure does seem preachy, 16:24-16:26 by which he means himself, because the voice of Joe 16:26-16:28 is really the voice of Doug Engelbart, 16:28-16:31 trying to walk us through these ideas. 16:31-16:33 And there are plenty of moments like that in there 16:33-16:38 that are just really, in Doug's very quiet and gentle way, 16:38-16:42 really quite playful and charming. 16:42-16:52 So as I read the blog posts from folks who really are upset, 16:52-16:55 I think they're upset about the essay. 16:55-17:00 I'm kind of at a loss. 17:00-17:03 I'm not trying to make converts to the Church of Engelbart, 17:03-17:04 really. 17:04-17:07 I believe very strongly in the power 17:07-17:09 and the integrity of his vision. 17:09-17:12 And the people who came after did as well, 17:12-17:14 even someone like Alan Kay, who had his own differences 17:14-17:18 with Doug, of course, now recognizes that Doug's vision 17:18-17:21 was just enormously powerful and that the idea of augmenting 17:21-17:26 human intellect is really what we should be focused on here. 17:26-17:31 At the same time, my heart aches a little bit, 17:31-17:34 because I like to share the pleasure and the joy that I 17:34-17:38 find in Doug's work with other people. 17:38-17:41 And we may have differences of opinion 17:41-17:44 in terms of various aspects of his ideas, 17:44-17:47 but to find the essay really repellent, 17:47-17:49 or to look at it and say, wow, this is really 17:49-17:53 what's wrong with interactive computing, 17:53-17:55 it reminds me of what some people say 17:55-17:56 when they talk about engineers. 17:56-18:00 They can be very caustic about engineers at times. 18:00-18:01 Some people can. 18:01-18:03 And they'll say, well, this is cold. 18:03-18:04 It's unfeeling. 18:04-18:07 And it has nothing to do with being human. 18:07-18:11 And I really beg to differ, especially with Doug Engelbart. 18:11-18:14 I mean, he's an engineer, to be sure, 18:14-18:16 but he's a very peculiar kind of engineer. 18:16-18:19 I think in many ways his vision of augmenting human intellect 18:19-18:22 with interactive computing gets at the spirit of all engineering, 18:22-18:26 which is to create something that actually will work for us 18:26-18:31 and will somehow ennoble us, will make the most of our humanity, 18:31-18:33 and it actually will work. 18:33-18:38 It'll actually function in an elegant and an interesting way. 18:38-18:41 And I think he accomplished all of that and more. 18:41-18:45 But that's, of course, my take on this. 18:45-18:48 Yeah, so what's been the activity? 18:48-18:48 Wow. 18:48-18:50 We've got all kinds of-- 18:50-18:51 It's sawing. 18:51-18:55 It's a city on the moon. 18:55-18:57 What's been the activity on the network? 18:57-19:01 You said that the net-vibes site has been lighting up a lot. 19:01-19:03 Yeah, glad you asked that. 19:03-19:06 So far, there's been a little bit of activity on the forum. 19:06-19:09 And I'll invite people to go to the forum, 19:09-19:13 and just especially to say hello to some folks who are maybe not 19:13-19:16 doing this with a group at their own site 19:16-19:20 but are trying to get some of the juice on their own. 19:20-19:24 The forum is a great place to go and interact. 19:24-19:26 And a lot of people have gone there to view it, 19:26-19:29 but not as many have gone there to actually post. 19:29-19:31 And I think it's a great opportunity for people 19:31-19:34 who are at the various sites to introduce themselves, 19:34-19:36 because you don't really necessarily 19:36-19:40 get a good idea of who people are. 19:40-19:45 That's been kind of ironic, because web forums have been 19:45-19:48 one of the mainstays of the ways we've 19:48-19:52 had to communicate, preceding blogs, 19:52-19:53 and Wikis have been around a while. 19:53-19:56 But I mean, to me, they were the big technology 19:56-19:57 when I first started. 19:57-20:00 Well, so this brings up another point, which is-- 20:00-20:05 and I think it's a good thing that this seminar is introducing 20:05-20:07 these forms of communication to people, 20:07-20:10 because most of the faculty and staff I run into 20:10-20:13 have never been on what I would call an internet discussion 20:13-20:15 forum. 20:15-20:17 They've probably done a listserv. 20:17-20:19 List serves are pretty well understood 20:19-20:22 and pretty widely adopted for scholarly kinds 20:22-20:24 of communication. 20:24-20:26 Most of the faculty and staff I talk to 20:26-20:28 have not really used a wiki, or they've 20:28-20:30 used the one built into Blackboard. 20:30-20:33 They've never used a discussion forum. 20:33-20:34 They've never blogged. 20:34-20:35 Which brings me to another thing I'd 20:35-20:39 like to say, which is that the blogging activity has been 20:39-20:40 the most vital part of it. 20:40-20:45 For me, people have been pretty faithful bloggers at Baylor, 20:45-20:47 although they kind of slipped this last week. 20:47-20:49 So I would encourage you Baylor members-- 20:49-20:51 Nod nod wink wink. 20:51-20:51 Yes. 20:51-20:53 Please maintain our position of leadership 20:53-20:56 in the new media faculty. 20:56-20:59 Because if we start falling down on the job, then we will-- 20:59-21:01 Those Houston people are catching up. 21:01-21:02 The Houston people will catch up. 21:02-21:03 But this is the other part. 21:03-21:06 I mean, I think blogging, as you've said many times, 21:06-21:10 it really is about being there and having some skin in the game 21:10-21:11 is the way I put it. 21:11-21:13 I think it makes it difficult for people at first. 21:13-21:15 But I really do encourage folks to stick with it, 21:15-21:19 because it's a very rich site for reflection. 21:19-21:23 And an odd thing happens as you use the blog form 21:23-21:26 to express at greater length your own thoughts, 21:26-21:31 I actually find that that connects people in really rich 21:31-21:35 and interesting ways that maybe a discussion forum wouldn't. 21:35-21:37 And I say that because I've been reading the people who 21:37-21:40 have been blogging at Houston, at Penn State. 21:40-21:44 There have been some bloggers at St. Lawrence University, 21:44-21:46 the Monterey Institute for International Studies. 21:46-21:49 A lot of folks there have blogged very faithfully, 21:49-21:51 McClennan Community College, and so forth. 21:51-21:55 And what I see over time is people 21:55-21:57 are grappling with the same kinds of questions, 21:57-22:00 but they bring different experiences to bear. 22:00-22:02 And you can really see that in a blog 22:02-22:05 because of the personal context. 22:05-22:08 And that makes all of the issues that we're all 22:08-22:13 kind of dealing with on our own a lot more interesting 22:13-22:15 because of the different experiences we bring to it. 22:15-22:18 And that's just been great. 22:18-22:20 I mean, reading the blogging activity 22:20-22:22 has been completely transformative for me. 22:22-22:26 It's been such a joy, even when people are upset about augmenting 22:26-22:30 human intellect, just to see the range of responses 22:30-22:32 and to watch this community of learners emerge 22:32-22:34 has been a real privilege. 22:34-22:37 So I've been very, very grateful for that. 22:37-22:40 And I really think the difference is, I mean, 22:40-22:43 you own what you put on the blog. 22:43-22:45 When you put something in the form, it's attached to your name, 22:45-22:48 but you're going to someone else's house 22:48-22:49 that's a conversation. 22:49-22:50 And this is your house. 22:50-22:51 Yeah, no, I think that's right. 22:51-22:55 And because you own it, the sharing becomes even more profound 22:55-22:56 because it's yours. 22:56-22:57 You could lock it away. 22:57-22:59 You could just make it something that you never show. 22:59-23:02 But this is yours and you're sharing it. 23:02-23:03 And that's pretty cool. 23:06-23:08 Boy, I hope any of this comes out about the song. 23:08-23:10 Yeah, I have no idea how this is going to-- 23:10-23:11 We're having a great time. 23:11-23:14 So what do we have coming up this week? 23:14-23:16 I'm even off track, annoying what the reading is. 23:16-23:20 OK, well, this is an interesting week for a couple of reasons. 23:20-23:24 One is because of the subject matter, Ted Nelson, 23:24-23:29 and Computer Lib Dream Machines is a different kind 23:29-23:31 of reading experience from augmenting human intellect. 23:31-23:33 It's very brash. 23:33-23:35 It was self-published. 23:35-23:41 It's very aggressive, but it's also trippy very much 23:41-23:45 of its time in its kind of, I'd have to say, 23:45-23:48 kind of a psychedelic sense, but also timeless 23:48-23:52 in that the concerns it takes up really 23:52-23:54 go back to the beginning of civilization. 23:54-23:57 And Nelson is the first writer we'll 23:57-24:01 be dealing with who has a lot to say about school. 24:01-24:04 One of the hallmarks of the essays we're reading 24:04-24:08 is that when you talk about interactive computing, 24:08-24:09 you're talking about communication, 24:09-24:12 and inevitably you're talking about learning. 24:12-24:14 And Vannevar Bush really starts this, 24:14-24:18 but Nelson really cracks that egg wide open. 24:18-24:19 Oh, he cracked it. 24:19-24:25 And in a very, as I say, a very brash and forward way. 24:25-24:26 So that's going to be really interesting. 24:26-24:30 We've got a facsimile of Computer Lib Dream Machines 24:30-24:34 at Baylor that we'll hand around for people to look at 24:34-24:38 and see really just how idiosyncratic-- maybe 24:38-24:40 that's the word I want. 24:40-24:40 This is. 24:40-24:44 The other reason it's interesting for me, 24:44-24:46 although I could list a sub reason, 24:46-24:48 I'm going to be Skyping in from Barcelona. 24:48-24:50 So we'll see how that goes. 24:50-24:51 But the other reason it's interesting 24:51-24:53 is this is going to be the first week we're 24:53-24:56 going to have somebody facilitate at Baylor who's not me. 24:56-24:59 So it's actually our two graduate fellows 24:59-25:03 who have been working-- one a sociologist, one a neuroscientist. 25:03-25:04 They've been working with the Academy 25:04-25:06 for Teaching and Learning. 25:06-25:09 In the case of the neuroscientist, over a year, 25:09-25:11 the sociologist has been with us about a year now. 25:11-25:14 And they're both going to be bringing Ted Nelson, Computer 25:14-25:16 Lib Dream Machines, in. 25:16-25:19 The excerpt in the new media reader is long, 25:19-25:21 but I think it's well, well worth it. 25:21-25:23 And I would just draw everyone's attention 25:23-25:26 to the very suitably bold statement 25:26-25:29 at the beginning of the editor's introduction 25:29-25:32 to Computer Lib Dream Machines, where they say, 25:32-25:36 I think it's Noah Wardrup-Fruin who wrote this, 25:36-25:40 that Computer Lib Dream Machines is the most important text 25:40-25:42 ever to be written in new media. 25:42-25:46 And as I tell my students, there are no weasel words 25:46-25:48 in there at all. 25:48-25:51 It's an unusual categorical claim 25:51-25:53 for an academic collection. 25:53-25:55 And I think it's there to make you think, 25:55-25:58 just as Computer Lib Dream Machines does. 25:58-26:01 And I just say, I mean, a lot of people probably 26:01-26:02 are familiar with Ted Nelson. 26:02-26:05 And if they are, it's, oh yeah, he invented hypertext. 26:05-26:06 But yeah, this goes a bit further. 26:06-26:09 It's like, say, oh yeah, Doug Engelbart, he made the mouse. 26:09-26:10 Yeah, exactly. 26:10-26:13 And Nelson includes Engelbart in the essay, 26:13-26:16 "Marshall McLuhan is in there." 26:16-26:20 You can tell that the modes of thinking 26:20-26:24 about what McLuhan called the electric age 26:24-26:27 have really started to heat up by the time we get to Ted 26:27-26:27 Nelson. 26:27-26:32 And I still love the tagline at the front of the book. 26:32-26:36 You can and must understand computers now, with now, 26:36-26:38 in full caps. 26:38-26:39 So I'm all about that. 26:39-26:40 I agree with him. 26:40-26:42 It's going to be great. 26:42-26:42 Sounds good. 26:42-26:44 So it's been great. 26:44-26:48 We actually doing a podcast like in the same space. 26:48-26:50 Yeah, so how does it feel to you? 26:50-26:54 Do you feel more connected in a real space 26:54-26:55 rather than the virtual space? 26:55-26:55 I do. 26:55-26:58 We do a great job just conversing. 26:58-27:01 But it's just added bonus to be able to be sitting 27:01-27:02 on this roof talking to you. 27:02-27:06 Although I have to say, I feel a little more connected 27:06-27:09 when I don't hear a jackhammer. 27:09-27:09 And the wind blowing. 27:09-27:11 And the wind blowing. 27:11-27:14 Although, for me, each has its pleasures. 27:14-27:18 I just spoke at the University of South Carolina 27:18-27:19 a couple of days ago. 27:19-27:21 And one of the participants there afterwards asked me, 27:21-27:23 do you do anything physical? 27:23-27:26 So I'm very pleased to say that, first of all, 27:26-27:30 thinking is physical because it involves your neurons. 27:30-27:30 Second-- 27:30-27:32 I'm all metaphysical. 27:32-27:33 We're all metaphysical here, baby. 27:33-27:37 And we are physical today under this lovely Barcelona 27:37-27:43 sun on these Shea's lounges on the top of Hotel Catedral 27:43-27:44 in Barcelona, Spain. 27:44-27:46 So greetings, everyone. 27:46-27:47 It's true. 27:47-27:49 We actually do live in bodies. 27:49-27:50 All right, Gardiner. 27:50-27:51 It's been great talking to you. 27:51-27:52 And I'll see you next week. 27:52-27:54 As always, see ya out.